Curse

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

the thing is, why should give u a survivor-req bow any damage? xD you can always use a bow with other attributes... but without damage.

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

So how would you be able to wield your two handed daggers and a focus for deadly?

I didn't say you would use 2 handed daggers and a focus, throwing knives are always possible...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

U can compare that to strength/tactics from warriors.

If playing with sword/axe and therefore with a shield u always need to put 7-13 points in strength or tactics. That's more annoying than this ranger thing.

Warriors are forced to 2 attributes, rangers to 1.

Strength/Tactics are like the primary attribute of Warriors. You are completely ignorant in the fact that you've left out expertise...Do you honestly think someone would use the high-cost trapping/BM skills without expertise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

the thing is, why should give u a survivor-req bow any damage? xD you can always use a bow with other attributes... but without damage.

Because you want mods to compliment your Attribute specialty...I don't think you've read any of these posts...

Dougal Kronik · Jul 10, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

the thing is, why should give u a survivor-req bow any damage? xD you can always use a bow with other attributes... but without damage.

Why do you use a sword/axe/hammer when you go "stance" tank?

Because you still need a weapon!

Even a strictly healing monk has a max damage wand he can use to wand opponents! Not much damage - but it's something in a pinch. And the use is for the mods and requirements of his current build.

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Why do you use a sword/axe/hammer when you go "stance" tank?

Because you always need damage as warrior.

A stance tank without dmg makes no sense at all. Your opponents can 100% ignore a tank without dmg. (Well only some stupid mobs could attack you...)

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

Because you always need damage as warrior.

A stance tank without dmg makes no sense at all. Your opponents can 100% ignore a tank without dmg. (Well only some stupid mobs could attack you...)

You gotta be kidding me...Stance tanks dont do damage...it's a PvE build that aggros the mob while casters stay out of his range and do damage/heal...please learn what you are talking about

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

omg please learn that you could use bows with other reqs in pvp too.

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

omg please learn that you could use bows with other reqs in pvp too.

omg please learn that that's not the issue...using a bow with BM wouldnt help in any way
The suggestion is to add "weapons" that aid the use of beastmastery and trapping, these do NOT have to do damage and be at range like bows...

majoho · Jul 10, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

You can have a weapon that has a requirement from any of your primary profession's attributes - except Ranger!

Eh... NO - All melee weapons follow their linked attribute as well, and there is no "staff/wand" reqs in the game.

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Eh... NO - All melee weapons follow their respective attribute as well.

I see what you're saying but warriors kind of work differently since their two "weapons" come from different attributes IE Shield from Tactics/Strength, Weapon from Mastery
But any caster class has a weapon AND focus that compliments his primary attributes where as warrior has only one for obvious reasons and the ranger has none

majoho · Jul 10, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

I see what you're saying but warriors kind of work differently since their two "weapons" come from different attributes IE Shield from Tactics/Strength, Weapon from Mastery.

Your point being? You think Warriors are actually happy they need to take high strength/tactics! And what about assassins.

The rule IS weapon is linked to weapon attribute, it would make NO sense whatsoever to suddenly change that.

--

Btw. for the most part casters have to use greens/collectors items because most gold items DON'T follow the linked attibutes - you usually get several different attributes on one item making it utter useless.

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

my argument is:

sword/axe mastery: only sword/axe dmg skills

if you could use survivor req bows you would make dmg AND you would have the chance to use traps, healing, ..........

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Your point being? You think Warriors are actually happy they need to take high strength/tactics! And what about assassins.

The rule IS weapon is linked to weapon attribute, it would make NO sense whatsoever to suddenly change that.

--

Btw. for the most part casters have to use greens/collectors items because most gold items DON'T follow the linked attibutes - you usually get several different attributes on one item making it utter useless.

Assassins use critical to maintain energy, if they didnt have that they would be unable to keep using combos...
So why are wands and staves linked to magic attributes? those aren't "weapon masteries"

Rogmar · Jul 10, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

my argument is:

sword/axe mastery: only sword/axe dmg skills

if you could use survivor req bows you would make dmg AND you would have the chance to use traps, healing, ..........

For the last time...it doesn't have to be BOWS, that do DAMAGE, they can be staves that simply give RECHARGE, ATTRIBUTE BOOST, or ENERGY...

Dougal Kronik · Jul 10, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Your point being? You think Warriors are actually happy they need to take high strength/tactics! And what about assassins.

The rule IS weapon is linked to weapon attribute, it would make NO sense whatsoever to suddenly change that.

--

Btw. for the most part casters have to use greens/collectors items because most gold items DON'T follow the linked attibutes - you usually get several different attributes on one item making it utter useless.

All I have to say is - WOW!?!?!

Just take a look in the auctions and check out almost any gold casters weapon. The requirement is one of the casters attributes! The way it is for Rangers at this time would be as if a Warrior needed 9 points in Swordsmanship to use a hammer! If you put no points in Swordsmanship - you can still weild the hammer and get any benefits like the Fortitude Grip, or Sundering Hammer Haft (why though because you have no points in Hammer Mastery you are doing minimal damage).

For you, the Rangers have 1 choice! Use your weapon or use your skills!! That is the most misinformed idea I have ever come across. Every other profession can use any of their attributes for their weapons! And use their skills while their weapons do maximum damage.

Why does the Ranger not have something to wield that is based on Wilderness Survival or Beast Mastery?

Why does the Rangers weapons (read bows) not have a mod available for Wilderness Survival or Beast Mastery?

Why can every attribute be pumped up to 17 (20% of the time and not factoring the shrines in Cantha which are dependant on location and Favor of the Gods) except Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival?

If you can answer that besides just saying "That's the way it is - too bad" or reducing to comparing to some poorly understood items or mechanics within the game - I will listen to you!

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

U don't get me or?

Quote:

if you could use survivor req bows you would make dmg AND you would have the chance to use traps, healing, ..........

for healing you have to use tactics as warrior and energy management as elementalist.

as ranger you could use 16 survivor and spend all other points to 2.class attributes.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 10, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

U don't get me or?

for healing you have to use tactics as warrior and energy management as elementalist.

as ranger you could use 16 survivor and spend all other points to 2.class attributes.

Cybah, could you give me an example build for a warrior in the PvE environment with an attribute breakdown and skillbar for one of the weapons masteries. This may make it easier for me to understand what you are trying to say.

As I understand it now: a Warrior can be perfectly setup with Strength (to increase Armor Penetration), Weapon Mastery (say Axe for an Axe Warrior), and Tactics for any skills in your skillbar that require Tactics like Healing Signet.

The most efficient use of Attribute points in this build would be:
11, 10, and 10 with 1 point left over, or
12, 10, and 8 with 1 point left over
not counting any Runes.

A Ranger going Beast Mastery; requires points in Expertise, Beast MAstery (it's the basis of the build), Wilderness Survival for the self healing (Troll Unguent), and Marksmanship (only item that has a Ranger Attribute requirement).

The most efficient use of Attribute points in this build would be:
11, 9, 8, and 8 with 1 point left over, or
12, 8, 8, and 7 with 1 point left over
not counting any Runes.

Dj Tano · Jul 10, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

My Point Always Stays - Remove Weapon Req !!!

elavro · Jul 10, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I want a whip, yes a whip! linked to beastmastery , it gives +12 energy, like a normal staff, it can have mods, it doesn't deal any dmg to enemy's. But when you target your pet and "attack" it it will come back to you, like a way to control your pet. Now this will help alot and who can argue that this is overpowerd?

Loki Seiguro · Jul 10, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

Rangers need to have javelins and pikes and spears, etc.

diablo 2 anyone?

yeah it would be nice but i dont really mine the marksmenship thing after all most of the bow dmg skill or bow attack skills are all in the marks section.
/ no opnion really..

Cybah · Jul 10, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

A Ranger going Beast Mastery; requires points in Expertise, Beast MAstery (it's the basis of the build), Wilderness Survival for the self healing (Troll Unguent), and Marksmanship (only item that has a Ranger Attribute requirement)

Well which beast master is using a bow? If you want to deal dmg with bow+pet you have to chose 2 attributes, would be imbalanced with only one requirement (with a beast master bow). Warriors can not deal 2 dmg types with 1 attribute either. Same at other classes.

Survivor req bow: look above.

Expertise req bow: well, there is no energy management req wand/staff right? :P

ps: In most builds I use 0 strength and only 7-8 tactics. So I'm able to put 12 in weapon and 10-11 in a 2.class attribute. When I play a tank, .... well I don't need much stances. they all recharge too slow. I use other great skills instead hehe.

edit:

Quote:

I want a whip, yes a whip! linked to beastmastery , it gives +12 energy

okay but with dmg to your pet and without dmg to mobs/players. xD agree.